358 | Jennifer Lieberman is an Amazing Writer, Performer and Producer!

0:03  
Welcome to positive talk radio. Our goal is simple to explore evolving ideas, one conversation at a time. So stay with us. As right now we present. Do you want to be an actor? Do you want to be a production person? Do you want to direct films? Do you want to be a screenplay writer? Do you want to live your life just a little bit more uniquely, and do some really incredible things. You may not know how to begin that, but I have a gal who can help us to get there. And her. Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. Her name is Jennifer Lieberman. And she has got a website. Let's start with that, which is called Make Your Own break. And it's make your own break.wordpress.com. And you can go there and you can find out all about the things that she does. She is an award winning writer, performer, producer. And she also helps people with executive and business coaching and production consulting and all kinds of stuff. And Jennifer, welcome to the podcast. How you doing?

1:12  
I'm doing good, Kevin, how you doing? How you doing?

1:18  
Fine. Good day.

1:22  
Exactly. Yeah, I'm doing wonderful. And I just want to clarify, even if people just go to make your own break.com It'll take you to the website. All roads lead to

1:32  
Oh, perfect. I

1:33  
info.

1:34  
Yeah, perfect. So make your own break.com and get get there. And I love talking. I love talking to actors and, and directors and people that are in the arts because you guys live life just a little bit differently than the rest of us. And I've got great senses of humor, and then and stuff like that. So it's it's really cool to talk to you.

1:58  
And the excuse not to be normal. I'm in.

2:03  
You know, there's something to be said for that. Being normal is not normal. Well, maybe not. Anyway, I don't know. But it's it's great to talk to you. I wanted to start at the beginning. When did you decide that you wanted to be an actor or director or, or to produce things and and to do that? Does this go back a long time?

2:28  
Yeah. So it's quite a silly story. When I was eight years old, I was in love with Zack Morris on Saved by the Bell, and I wanted to be his girlfriend. So in my little eight year old head, I would imagine storylines for Saved by the Bell where I would be like the new girl at Bayside. And I write like fanfiction scripts. I didn't know what fanfiction was at the time. I don't even think the word fanfiction was coined until I was an adult. In the industry, we call them spec scripts. Like if you're trying to get a job writing, you know, you'll write an episode a sample episode of a TV show to show them that you can write in that style. So yeah, I started writing like spec scripts or fanfiction scripts, whatever you want to call them when I was a wee little eight year old child, because I was in love with Zack Morris.

3:34  
Well, most little girls find the first love to be somebody that they find on TV. In my day, it was like Scott Bale, or David Katz me. Traci or David Cassidy that all a little girls wound and there was those in the magazines as the 16 magazines that hadn't done I'm sure they still do those. But they they featured all the young kids that were that everybody wanted to date for Yeah,

4:01  
I had Zack Morris in my locker in junior high from the Tiger Beat magazines. Tiger Beat that's what it was. Yeah. And there's TNB Tiger Beat, you know, pop something. So yeah, so that's basically how I started writing because I just kind of had an imagination as a child and love to live in my imaginary world. And so it kind of came in tandem as writing things that I wanted to actually perform or live out. So it so I I started writing at that age, I didn't really start performing until I was much older. But I there was always like a love for performing. I was a competitive gymnast. So I guess that does count as performing because when you're in competition you're performing for the judge. jizz and part of it is your skill set, but it's also kind of like charisma and all that stuff. So, um, but every opportunity I had to kind of like do skits and make up dances oh my god, I think I spent like my entire childhood making when I wasn't training making up dances in my parents basement.

5:23  
Were you one of those good little girls that got a bunch of little girls together and you would all act stuff out and create stuff and that sort of thing? Or, or did you not have those people around you?

5:33  
Well, it was usually my cousins because I spent the most time with my cousins. So I think I like tortured a lot of them. Like I had my cousin Haley was like, super shy, so I could never get her to dance with me. So like her younger brother, Jesse, who was like a year younger than me, like was my victim. And I would make up dances with him all the time and make up dances. My cousin Nicole, um, some of my girlfriends were into it. But I also I made up a lot of dances alone.

6:06  
I gotta ask you, because you know, there's a, I forget her name. But there was a gymnast. This last couple of years that did the floor exercises, and Jake blew everybody away. I can't remember exactly what we were

6:20  
talking about. But her name also escapes me. Yes, she's phenomenal.

6:25  
Like for you to be standing on the edge of the mat. And the music was about to play. And then you are going to do your floor exercise, which you had studied at nauseam and knew backwards and forwards. But it still had to be a stressful moment.

6:41  
Yeah, it was stressful. And I remember like the first time I landed like a full twisting, backflip, I was like, so excited that I landed it in competition, I forgot the rest of my routine and like, crying and ran off the floor. Was not glory.

7:00  
Well, there was a point in time when you did this as a kid. And, and then as you grew up, you continue to want to do it. Where a lot of people say or are told by people around them. Oh, now Jennifer, Jennifer, Jennifer, you can you kind of prepare for your adulthood and, and this pie in the sky stuff of being either being an actor or being a producer or writing and stuff, you're gonna have to set that aside, it's okay, it's a hobby, but you're never gonna make any money at it, you're not gonna really was there people around you like that?

7:33  
We're constantly still people saying that to me. And the thing is, it's like you do you, and all you me, and you don't have to live my life, you're gonna have to walk in my shoes, and I'm going to make the choices that I feel are fulfilling, and that bring me joy. Life is short, we only get one shot here. And I won't buy into it, I won't buy into the whole, like, you got to grow up, I'm never gonna grow up. Like my niece and nephew all the time telling me I'm not a grown up. I'm a kid. I'm one of them. I'm so much fun. And, you know, I still have had several, you know, career positions where I was like performing arts director at an elementary school, I've been in office manager at a commodity brokerage firm, I've managed a couple of restaurants. When I'm on set, and I'm a producer, I'm in charge of everyone, I'm in charge of all the departments. So they're not mutually exclusive. It's just a choice. It's just a choice that you make, like you're either going to, you know, live a joyful life and choose to do things that that are fun. And even if they're not fun, you can find a way to bring the fun like my number one rule when I'm working on a production is if you're not having fun, you're fired. And I came up with that when I was producing dump water divas, which was about two girls who almost won Star Search but didn't. And then 20 years later, they were invited back to do a reunion show for their like second chance at stardom because my dream when I was little girl making up dances in my basement was to be on Star Search. Um, but but that's the thing. It's like we don't we have choices. But the biggest choice we have is are you going to make it fun? Are you going to make your life into something fun? Are you going to you know, sure we all have to go to work. We all have to pay our bills. We all have to you know, there are just basic needs we all have in life, but it's like, are you going to have fun doing it or not? You can choose to find the fun doing anything, even if it's like super tedious and super boring or like, you know,

9:55  
you know, I gotta ask you because it takes a lot of interest. mental fortitude, to be able to stick to your guns and to not allow other people to beat you down. Because you know, as sadly, there are a lot of people that don't feel like, well, if I can't do and if I have to go to work, then you shouldn't have to go to work to you can't have so much fun in this life. Life is tough. And it's, you know what I mean? And how did you how did you get? How did you get past that? Did you just is that just a need to you? Well, I

10:27  
think, first of all, like, I think the gymnastics training was Major, because it was a solo sport. And it was just me against myself. You know, it wasn't a team sport. And every single day, I was trying to best myself at the gym, I was trying to best what I did the day before. So and also, I've always been an individual, I've always kind of been a loner, I've always been an individual. I've never needed to be accepted by the group. I've always been comfortable going against the grain. That's just been my personality since I was a kid. And even like, I wouldn't I would never buy into like fads or trends or whatever. Like if everybody else was doing it, I wasn't. That's just my personality.

11:12  
So you enjoy doing your own thing. And you don't let anybody talk you out of it.

11:18  
Basically. Exactly like Sure. You know, I'll listen to people and if they have valid, valid feedback and valid points, sure. You know, I'm not a No at all. I don't think I know everything. I don't think I'm better than anyone. Like there's no such thing as being better. We're all just different. You know, that's the thing. It's like people who are naysayers or, or appear to be naysayers, you know, they're trying to be helpful. They're trying to be helpful, because they're speaking from their own fears and their own points of view. And I choose not to live in fear. I choose, you know, I choose love over fear. And sure, like, it's yeah, it can be scary, not having a steady paycheck, or not having like a nine to five that you clock in every day. And you don't really have that stability in life. But I choose to love do what I love and have faith and you know, be creative about how I make my way in the world.

12:23  
You know, it's interesting, because you also have been a restaurant manager, right? Yeah. And I was also in the restaurant business for many, many years. And I considered like Friday night, Friday night was a great big production. Oh, yeah. I and it was it was actually fun. And we treated it. Like it was a stage production. Because we had like 13 servers, and five bus people and seven cooks and four dishwashers, and the bar staff and, and three managers, and the hostesses and all that, and everybody had a role to play. And we tried to make it as fun and as exciting for them as we could so that, in turn, they could turn around and give our customers the best experience they could have. And which made our place a lot more fun for everybody. So it who wasn't Shakespeare, who said All the world's a stage? I think that's I think there's a lot to be said for that. What do you think?

13:20  
Um, I agree, definitely. So when I used to manage, yes, we'd have like a floor meeting, you know, before we open the doors and like, right, as we were getting ready to open, I'd be like, Okay, it's show time. And that's what I would say every night because we are there playing a role. You know, and I don't think people are defined by their jobs. And especially when you work in the restaurant business, most people who, you know, unless you're working in the kitchen, because a lot of people who work in the kitchen, their desire is to be chefs, and is to, you know, is to do that. But a lot of the server's it's their side hustle. And they're pursuing, usually in artistic career. So you know, so we all play different roles in our lives, you are not the same person, I'm assuming, when you talk with your siblings, as you are when you would talk with your parents, or when you would talk with your best friend. You know, we all we all have, like different masks or different facets of our personality that come out at the appropriate times, you know, and I have friends who have to wear a suit to work and they call their suit their costume. Because if they didn't have to go to work, they wouldn't be wearing that suit. It's a costume. And it's performative because they have to perform a certain role at that office, you know, but when they're out of the office, and they don't have to perform that role, they dress very differently. And they even you know, speak differently use different diction articulate themselves in a different way. They're more laid back, they, you know, have more fun, and that's just kind of life. And we all wear different hats at different times, or different masks, however you want to however you want to say it. And that's that's just how we find our way in the world. You know, I don't think one person is the same all the time in every single circumstance with every single person they speak to. That's just not really. I don't think that's very natural.

15:29  
No, you're right, you're right. And a lot of people like I do, I feed off the energy of others, yes, it's a positive energy. If it's a positive, they come at me, as an example, you have got a very positive energy and a very positive vibe. And so me talking to you, is like, like, feeds my soul, if you will, because I truly love people that are engaged in life and are interested in being the best that they can, and doing the best that they can, I used to run around the restaurant on Friday night going, we're gonna be busy, get ready, we're gonna be busy, just like you did at Showtime, it was like, I would walk up to and I it's not like I go to the grocery store, and say, to the checker, I gotta get out of here, I'm gonna be busy, you know, and it was different, because it was, it was part of the role that I was playing at that time. But, but it's cool to have somebody such energy to do what you're doing, and to want to help other people to do it as well. And to understand the best way to go. And one of the things that you did there, we can talk about this. On the podcast here, ran when we do the radio show, we have to change the name a little bit. Okay. Tell me about the year of the slot.

16:52  
Okay, sure. So that was my weigh in. So make your own break was founded about a decade ago, because for many years, I was really like spinning my wheels, trying to get a foot in the door, and trying to, you know, get the role or get the part or make the connection. And when you're spending the bulk of your time doing that. You spend very little of your time in the creative process, which actually brings you joy, which is actually the reason you started pursuing a career in the arts in the first place. So you're of the slot was a one woman show that I created. I created it when I went to LA to try and you know, invite directors, producers, agents, people who had the ability to hire me or submit me for work. And like in the movie, Lala Land really showed up. I had more than one person in the audience because I had supportive friends from acting class and some people that I had met on my travels that came to support me. But the purpose of the show was never fulfilled. I never met that agent, I never met that manager, I never connected with a director or producer, it never led, or at least not immediately to the end goal that I had in mind. However, while I was working on that show, both the writing process, the rehearsal process, and the production of the show, I finally was fulfilled as a creative artist, because I was able to create. And not only that, when you're first starting out as an actor, you're kind of a victim of how people perceive you. Because you don't have a body of work to show what you're capable of, or to show your range. So with this piece, I was able to write myself 10 Very different diverse characters. And I was able to snap in and out of them seamlessly, and really show what I was made of. I had the challenge of engaging an audience all by myself for an hour and a half on stage. I also had the challenge of writing the material and making sure that I could write something that so not only did I have to engage them as a performer, but the material that I wrote also had to be engaging. So it was like so many different levels of like everything that I had worked been working towards since I was eight years old, all kind of coming together in this one production. And even though the goals that I specifically had were not met, I realized like wow, instead of wasting my I'm trying to get a foot in the door trying to get that break, I'm just gonna keep making my own stuff and keep making my own break. And then this show eventually went on, it got into a festival in New York, I won the Audience Choice Award, I was encouraged to adapt it into a novel, which I did, which we can get into later. But the novel is now a number one Amazon bestseller. It's won five literary awards this past year. And, you know, so you don't know where things are going to lead, but you just have to jump in, you just have to jump in and take the reins and start creating things. And then there's like the snowball effect, you know, and then I, because I did the show, I met certain people, and then the director that I worked with, he's introduced me to other people, and he's gotten me into other productions. And then going to New York, I met a whole slew of other people that I had opportunities to collaborate with, and everything just kind of builds and builds and builds and builds. But I find that like, most people that I've met in the industry, you know, who kind of have the longevity to stick with it without getting that big break, or people who keep creating their own opportunities. And it's okay, like, it's okay, if you still need to work, a side hustle, or, you know, have another job or whatever. Because as long as you're fulfilled creatively, and as long as you're finding joy in what you're doing, and joy in your life, then you're satisfied. You know, the reality of being a creative is 90% of all actors in the Screen Actors Guild, never make a living. ever say that, again. 90% of all actors in the acting union in the Screen Actors Guild will never make a living at it, they might make a living for one year, or maybe three years. But the majority of them do not make a living, it is a lucky 10% of screen actors, guild actors who actually make a living, who actually hit their benefits who actually because you have to, you have to make a certain amount before your health care kicks in and benefits kick in, and all of that stuff. And out of that 10%, maybe 1% of them are recognizable names. And out of that 1%, maybe point 1% are actually like the big stars in the world, you know, so So that's the reality. But you can still have a joyful, fulfilling life, and you can still be a creative artist without being at the top of the food chain.

22:53  
Well, and the Screen Actors Guild as an example, it's not like you can go to the Screen Actors Guild office and give them like $500 to join the union. If they have to, it's difficult describe how difficult it is, yeah, you

23:07  
have to jump through quite a bit of hoops, you have to book a certain amount of union jobs, and you or you have to get a certain amount of vouchers before you're eligible to join. And it can take people years, it can take people decades, just to get their credentials to be able to join, and then you do join, and then you still aren't guaranteed any sort of a career.

23:28  
Well, and actually, from what I've been told, it actually can hurt you. Because if you're in the Screen Actors Guild, you can't do any non union work. And there's a lot of non union work out there.

23:41  
That's true, but you also have to be careful with non union work depending on what it is. non union commercial work gets very tricky. Because

23:54  
can you get banned from the Screen Actors Guild? If you if you are doing non union stuff, and you are in the union? Can they can they?

24:03  
Yeah, yeah, you can definitely get kicked out. So yeah, so that's the other thing too, you have to walk a fine line of everybody wants to be in the union. But if you join too soon, you can be shooting yourself in the foot because you might have more chances of getting independent non union work and then building up your resume and building up your reel that way, as opposed to you know, kind of jumping in really soon. And then you're competing against all these other people who have way more experience than you. However, if you're creating your own projects, none of that matters. Because, you know, you can, you can easily get the union paperwork to do your own projects. You know, you become a signatory and you apply, you know, and make sure you get all the correct paperwork and insurance and everything in your projects union

25:01  
Oh, wow. So you are now first of all, when we talked about, and when we talked about this on the radio show, we have to call it what it has become the what the year of the what, which is the book that has won all the awards, and has and has sold a bunch of copies and stuff. So tell us about that journey.

25:22  
Okay, so after the show won an award in New York, based on the original title alone, people got very excited about it. Because it's like a Sex in the City. And everybody was saying like, this would make a great like Chiclet novel, it would fly off the shelves, the title alone, it's going to sell itself. I had a literary agent who's like, if you write this, I'll rep you, I had all this encouragement and all this momentum, that very quickly, all disappeared. So the journey of getting the book out there took much longer, I gave up on it several times, I went through several editors, I went through countless rejections from publishers and agents. And you know, and ultimately, I just kind of never thought I would make it to the finish line. And just resolved like, Okay, one more thing I tried, and it didn't work out, you know. And then it was my old boyfriend, who in just passing in a conversation, I mentioned that I had written a novel, and he's like, What are you talking about, like, you're on a novel, and I was like, Yeah, but it's never gonna happen. And he read it. And he was the one who encouraged me, and he said, just publish it, just self publish it yourself on Amazon, don't even worry about selling a single copy. Because that's not the point of the exercise. The point of the exercise is just complete, complete the endeavor, which I can't do with a screenplay, because with a screenplay, I've written several of those, but you need like, hundreds of 1000s to millions of dollars to execute an actual movie. But with this book, he's like, all you need to do is like, you know, get get a cover, and, you know, a little bit of artwork and an ISBN number and throw it up on Amazon. So if it wasn't for him, kind of reframing my point of view, to not put any pressure on the situation, and just do it as an exercise in completion. Um, that's how I got it done. And then, yep, go ahead.

27:34  
Go ahead. Well, I was just gonna ask you, because a lot of people went, where do you get the drive? Because you know, and I think that separates some people from others is that you consider that journey, and continuation of the journey. And if it didn't work out, okay, well, now what I want to do, I want to do something else. And that's going to continue, and I'm going to keep going. A lot of people quit. And the only time that you lose is when you quit, at least in my opinion. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I

28:05  
do. I do agree with that. But also, with every artistic endeavor, it's like, not every play is gonna win a Tony or a Pulitzer, not every performance is going to be you know, Oscar, or Emmy worthy. Not every book is, you know, gonna get read. But it's the next one. It's always about the next one, and then the next one, and then the next one. Because with every one you do, you get better, and then you get better, and then you get better, and then you get better. And, you know, you can look at somebody's early work and be like, and they weren't so good. But if they kept at it, and they kept working at it, whether it's writing, whether it's painting, you know, I went to like an exhibit of Picasso's Blue Period, about a year ago at the Art Gallery of Ontario, in Toronto, and there was nothing that stood out about Picasso's work in the blue period. It just seemed like, you know, very typical artwork. You know, it didn't look like Picasso, the way he's known for his work today. But he needed to, he needed to learn how to classically paint and he needed to learn how to paint by the rules, before he could break the rules and find his own voice, so to speak. You know, as a painter, I'm still finding my voice as a writer, I'm still finding my voice as an actor, you know, and it can take years it can take decades before we kind of have that breakthrough. But that's the thing of course, if you stop then you're never gonna get there. And if you don't enjoy it, well then there's no point to keep going. But if you love it, like if you love it, if you wake up in the morning, and you're like I I don't have to go to work. I get to go to work. Yeah, but why is it even a question why I would keep going?

30:13  
A lot of people from the outside, look at people from the outside. And they say, well, especially when you when you consider that you have, quote, unquote, failed, I don't ever consider it failure, I consider it an experience that you had, which is going to get you to the next level. Yeah. And sometimes you need somebody in your corner, who's going to help you. You know, negotiate the minefield that occupies all of our minds of I'm not good enough, and, and I can't do it, and it's not right. And then and then and all that other stuff. And you're the one of those people that can help that not only are you working on your own craft, to develop your own portfolio of work, you're willing to help other people, that you can help them understand what it is that they need to do. Or you can you can guide them. And how does that work? How did you get into that? Well, first

31:05  
of all, I just want to say like, it takes a village, you know, I'm sure I have my days where like, I want to give up on everything, but I have very good friends who believe in me, and who won't let me give up and who remind me who I am. Because sometimes it's easy to forget. And then the other thing is, I believe everybody has got gold, somewhere inside of them. You know, whether it's whether it's creative gold, whether it's intellectual, gold, you know, we all so I basically just help people mined for gold, because everyone has something special to offer the world. We all do. You know, we were all gifted with something. That's why we're here. And a lot of us never really take the time to figure out what it is, or a lot of us are in situations where we're surrounded by the wrong people who don't give us a chance to believe in ourselves. So yeah, like, for me, the most exciting thing in the world is making something out of nothing, you know, creating something from the ether. And you that's what we do with stories, that's what we do with art, that's that's what the creative process is even like biological creation, you're creating something out of nothing, you know, and that's what's so exciting about this world, we all have the power to create. And, you know, there's nothing more frustrating than feeling like you have something to offer, but not being able to have the chance to share it, you know, like, it's very frustrating when you feel like you have a gift, but you're not able to share it with the world. So I offer a way in I offer, I offer creatives a way to figure out how they can share their gift. And I'm offering it on a small scale, because it all takes baby steps, nobody starts at the top of the mountain, you have to start at the bottom of the mountain, you have to put one foot in front of the other and then the next foot in front of that foot and just keep going. And you know, and you start small, and then it gets a little bigger, and then it gets a little bigger and it gets a little bigger, like I started writing, writing my play at my kitchen table and rehearsing it in my living room. And Who knew Who knew one day it would be a best selling book and you know, an award winning, you know, thing out there in the world that people are enjoying, like,

33:58  
you became an overnight success. Well, not

34:02  
not quite overnight, it took many years, like the like the saying goes, you know, takes many years to become an overnight success. But I also I never expected anybody to experience it. Other than the limited number of people who could come to the theater. I never thought that it would be available in Australia and India and London, you know, in the UK, and you know what I mean? Like it's on all the Amazon platforms all over the world. And that's not something I was even thinking about at the time. But you know, you start with a seed of an idea, and you water it and you let it grow. And you know, I talk about all the time like you know, planting seeds, planting seeds, you know, and you you water them and you know in some some things grow faster than others. And some things you know, never really blossom but You just have to keep kind of planting and nurturing and whatever kind of, and a lot of times, the ideas will tell you when they're ready or the environment or the, the times will kind of inform you of what's relevant now and what's not relevant, and you know, what, you know, what people are ready for, or, you know, what people don't even want to bother with.

35:27  
I believe that we are a total sum total of all of our experiences. And all of our experiences are there to take us where we ourselves want to go. And some of them are challenging, some of them are very rewarding. But overall, we're learning how to negotiate this thing that we call life. And if you can do it in a positive way, and continue to move forward, without saying, like, that's not gonna work. So I'm gonna go give something else that I try that you may not even like, or whatever, if you keep if you keep following your passion, but I wanted to ask you, do you run into a lot of people? Because I do lately that a lot of people that say they get to a certain point in life? And they say, you know, is this all there is? And why am I really here? I have to be here to do more than just be, I don't know, be an executive or to be a housewife? Or why am I really here? Do you get people that are more and more and more talking in that vein, I'm

36:35  
not probably as much as you do. Because I do work with a lot of creatives. And my social circles tend to be

36:43  
where you're already in the group that is already doing that, that are saying you better say what I owe.

36:49  
But I also think a lot of people are afraid to fail, they're afraid to try and fail. And that's why that's what keeps most people from going after their dreams or going after their passion. Because, you know, when I decided to, to become an actor and to you know, pursue a career, that was very different from what everybody wanted me to do, the question people love to ask me is, how long are you going to give it? You know, like, how long are you going to give it? Like, if you don't make it in five years? Or if you don't make it in 10 years? You know, are you going to go back to school or this or that? Like, how long? Am I quiet? My answer that question has always been until I don't want to do it anymore. You know, like, why, why? Why do I have to give it a time limit? Like I'm having a love affair? Why? You know, why do I need to cut it short, just because I'm not hitting milestones that other people are concerned about.

37:52  
And they're not necessarily your milestones, either. There's somebody what somebody else's expectation of what, whatever success means to them.

38:01  
Yeah. And the thing that people forget, you know, once we hit a certain age, we forget how many times we fell on our, on our behind, trying to learn how to walk. You know, we forget how many times we messed up words, trying to learn how to talk, we forget how bad our grammar was, before we went to school, and were drilled about it or how bad our math was, or how many times we miss baskets before we actually learned how to get them. But it's hilarious to me how, as adults, we hit a certain age, and all of a sudden, there's like this huge shame and fear around not being able to start at 100%. And it's never too late. There are no rules in life, about happiness, and about doing things that you love. You know, there are people who learn to surf in their 50s There are people you know, there's like that supermodel now she's all gray. And she's I think in her 70s and she's still a supermodel. Like there's no rules about what we can do and what we can't do. And when there's the time limit expires for for trying new things. And I love learning new things like um, before the pandemic, I was going to salsa class. And I, you know, I messed up every time. I you know, when I was going to classes once or twice a week, whatever I can fit into my schedule, and I'm not great with choreography. Even though I made up dances as a little kid, you know, it's very different making up your own dance in your head or like following actual choreography and having the right frame and all of that. And it's like, I didn't care. I didn't care how much I sucked. I was having fun. And I think people forget that. It's like, it doesn't matter how much you suck if you're hot. being fun, and keep having fun. And you'll get better

40:04  
when you know, and the thing is a lot of people are very supportive. When you're putting yourself out there and doing that kind of kind of work, even if you're not great at it, a lot of people will be very supportive of you. And that's and that's what's exciting. Yeah. Don't be afraid to fall on your ass. Occasionally, that's gonna happen. And you know, what's even worse, as you were talking about as you get older, well, you know, when you were a kid, and you would fall down, and now then you when you get older, and then you fall down again. And so it's and you can't talk anymore. And it's just at the end of the day. It's, it's when you get old, it's just like when you're young. So enjoy the time that we have here. Because you're right, we get the one time and and that's it the answer you might as well relax and enjoy yourself because you're not going to get out of the live anyway.

40:51  
Exactly. Exactly. And like, you know, there's no point being afraid of things that you that you love.

41:03  
Exactly. So speaking of not being afraid. What's next for Jennifer?

41:10  
Well, I'm working on part two of my novel. So that is,

41:15  
exactly is that going to be decade of a slot? Or what's that going to be?

41:19  
No, it's your of the bitch.

41:22  
I should have known I shouldn't

41:24  
Well basically what I'm doing with this series is your of the slide was deconstructing a word that's weaponized against young women. Because if somebody wanted wants to attack a female in her teens and 20s, that is the go to word, yeah, to degrade a female. So as a woman gets more mature, more assertive in her life, the word bitch is the word of choice to attack a female. So in Book Two, I'm going to be deconstructing that word, and dealing with the same protagonist. But now she's in her 30s. In Europe, the slet. She was 25. So now she's just over 30. And she is learning how to assert herself, and gaining more confidence in life and dealing with being perceived as a bitch.

42:19  
Which is it's it is so sad that we have a structure in our country where a sort of men, men that take no prisoners that are out there to really make stuff happen and to shake stuff up. And if you don't do what they say, and toe the line, then you're gonna be in trouble. And God bless him for being tough guys.

42:40  
Exactly.

42:41  
You have the same woman do the same thing. And she's a good Damn what a fucking bitch.

42:45  
She's a monster. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah. So that's what I'm so that is the next book I'm working on. I also have a feature film that I've written that I'm raising money for, it's going to be my directorial debut. I'm not quite sure when I'm, I'm expecting. If everything goes smoothly, we will go into production sometime in 2023. Fingers,

43:11  
Revelations, you're raising money. And I mean, you have to raise a lot of money to do a feature film.

43:17  
Well, this is going to be an indie feature. So it's not going to be like a multimillion dollar film. It's going to be, you know, money. But we still we still have, you know, a ways to go in terms of raising the funds. But it's something I'm really proud of, I'm really excited about I've been getting great feedback on the script. So for couples in New York, whose relationships are falling apart, and they become intertwined, and it's a very tumultuous, racy, dramatic romance. So that's really exciting. And then I've also written a TV pilot that's being shopped around right now, that has to do with infertility.

44:01  
Very cool. Very cool. It's a it's a big, it's a big topic right now.

44:06  
It is a big topic. Yes. And, you know, for several different reasons. You know, first of all, most same sex couples need help in terms of fertility, because same sex couples can't naturally conceive on their own. So that's one issue and then as as couples are deciding to put off having babies until later in life, because I feel like you know, a couple generations ago, people would get married and start a family regardless of if they own the home and if they had all the ducks in a row, and now people want to be more secure in their careers. They want to have a nest egg. They want to have all of those things. So it's something that people are putting off. More women are freezing their eggs more women are successful and can stand on their own to feet and decide to have children on their own without a partner without a spouse. So yes, it's kind of explores, you know, what families look like in the 21st century? Because it's not the nuclear family or the traditional family anymore. That's not the norm, so to speak.

45:19  
Are you going to incorporate this one? The ruling of the Supreme Court that came down this last year? Are you going to put that into some of your into some of your work

45:29  
and dressed? It's definitely addressed? Yes.

45:33  
Because because I can see how there are people who are on that bandwagon that would say, freezing your eggs is like, not it's like, killing an unborn baby. If they're, you know what I mean, then, I mean, there's lots of really weird connotations out there and stuff. So

45:54  
there are and, you know, but there's also several other, there's so many reasons why a woman would choose to do that. And some of them are medical reasons. Sure. Some of you know, there are some people who go through IVF not because they can't conceive, but because they have genetic disorder, in their family in their genes, and they want to circumvent implanting an embryo that's a carrier of that disease. You know, like, there's, like, it's gotten so high tech, it's gotten so high tech these days, like, it's, it's pretty amazing. I did quite a bit of research I wrote this with, with a colleague of mine, Stacy malsky, she's also a best selling author, and screenwriter. And, you know, I approached her with this with the subject matter, and it's just quite timely, it's timely, it's relevant, it's relevant very much. So, um, you know, we deal with, we're able to deal it's based in a fertility clinic. So we're able to deal with, like, the whole gamut of, of different scenarios of what's going on out there in the world. And, you know, but it's also, like, all too real for so many people. And numerous really devastating, it can be really devastating when people are trying to start a family and they are unable to,

47:31  
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you must be really proud of the work that you're doing.

47:36  
Yeah, you know, I just kind of tick tend to write about things that are important to me. And that resonate with me, and I just, you know, when I wrote year of the slet, I was in my 20s. And it was a relevant issue to me at the time, of, you know, how come guys get to taste all the flavors, and they're never judged for it. And a female like, you know, God forbid, you know, has three boyfriends before she gets married. And she's like, you know, like, tainted, you know, so. So basically, and I've evolved quite a bit since then, that was quite some time ago now. And there are other issues that are important to me. Definitely, like, I'll always kind of go back to like the racy tumultuous, like romance genre, I think that's always going to be like a staple in my work. But I do, like I'm, I have another piece that I'm working on several pieces at a time because I have like several pots simmering on the stove at once. And you know, they all take kind of time to like for all the flavors to come out. And so I'm working on a piece that has to do with like homelessness and mental illness, I'm working on a piece that has to do with fertility, I'm working you know, it, I'm working on your of the bitch. Yeah, and, you know, because a lot of times, you know, these pieces can take years and just the amount of research that you're doing research can take months and getting the people on the phone and, you know, doing the interviews and then being able to, like process them. And, you know, kind of choose like, okay, like how do I want to approach this what's the most kind of effective way, but also giving everybody the respect that they deserve in terms of like, you know, creating new characters, but giving them dignity as if they were a real person, because that's the only way you can get an audience to connect with them is if they, you know, the more authentic and the more real, they feel.

49:49  
Well, most of the time, if somebody is reading a book and they run across a character, they are going to know somebody who's liked that character. Yeah. And so it becomes a real thing. Even though the name it'd be different and stuff so I think I think that's that's that's just, that's just super the year of the what is the is that the book on Amazon the year the what?

50:13  
Yep, there's your the white, I also have two books under make your own break on Amazon, how to make your own break how to record and publish your audio book in seven simple steps. And that's also a number one best seller, I recorded my own audio book messed up, recorded the whole thing had to throw it in the garbage and start from scratch.

50:34  
And I've done a lot and then

50:37  
Stacy who I wrote this other project with was like, Oh, now you can write a how to book so other authors don't make all the mistakes you made. And I was like, okay,

50:48  
I can tell you I've done an audio book, I'm not liable to do one another one anytime soon. Because it is hard. It's labor intensive. To do it right, and to get the editing correct. And to get the inflections correct and to understand the characters, as the author intended them to be. That that is a whole, that that's an acting skill all by itself.

51:14  
So this book, actually, it really outlines it in a very simple, straightforward way. And I give kind of like a formula of how to get it done. And, you know, vocal exercises, working on your vocal stamina, I recommend that everybody does vocal exercises every single day for 30 days before they even attempt. Right, you know, to record the book, because most people are not professional actors or professional speakers. And I do believe that if you're a self published author, you are the best person to tell your story. You know, I know that nobody's going to tell YOUR story the way that you can. So I go through chapter by chapter kind of, you know, starting with, yes, you can, that's the first chapter. Because we love to talk ourselves out of things, we're so much better at talking ourselves out of things and talking ourselves into things. So, um, you know, I kind of start with a little pep talk. And then I go through like, step by step, you know what to focus on what to work on. You know, I talk about equipment, home studio, editing equipment, like the editing software, you know, how to record it, all of that stuff. And I think I give a pretty straightforward plan that breaks it down for any regular person to be able to achieve it. But like you said, it is time consuming, I give a very realistic timeline, like six months minimum, to record it. To do it correctly. You know, people think they can bang it out in a weekend or a long weekend, you you've got another thing. And also just being careful to protect your voice, so you don't lose your voice, you don't get raspy, you know, and spreading it out correctly over time.

53:02  
I, the name of that book, again, is make your

53:05  
own break, how to record and publish your audio book in seven simple steps,

53:12  
you know, that could be make your own break could be your Are you going to like to trademark that?

53:20  
Um, well, now that you mentioned it, maybe I should make your own break is my company. And it's funny because I always intended to have like, solo show development and seven simple steps because I started with my solo show. And then film production 1017 simple steps. So I haven't gotten to those yet. But I do intend to write those books just over the pandemic, the audio book one became kind of the most prevalent at the time. So that was one I did during the pandemic. And then the other one was how to master your virtual meeting in seven simple steps.

53:59  
I think that is a brilliant outline for a series of books.

54:05  
Yes. So there's two in the series so far, but there are going to be several other ones. Eventually.

54:12  
A lot of them Yeah. Because it because they what people don't. People don't benefit from your experience unless you put it out there. And they because you're putting it out there. That's that really is a good thing for those people who can benefit from your experience. Because Thank you. That's it. That's it. That's really cool. Jennifer Lieberman has been our guest and we've been talking with her. And you know, I could talk to you all day.

54:36  
I really, I know. I know. It's so much fun chatting with you, Kevin. And we have like so much, you know, there's so much ground to cover. So I look forward to being on the radio show and continuing this conversation.

54:48  
Yes. And I have to tell you, though, we can we started this before the show we were talking about I believe this to be true. If you're going to be a great salesman, if you're gonna be be a great speaker, if you're going to be a great cub master or whatever it is, you should take a class on improvisational acting, learning how to think on your feet. Because nothing, always, even if you're in a play, and it's scripted, and everybody's supposed to know what to do, there's often times when some of the best things happen in unscripted moments, when you have to rely on yourself. Just a quick story when I was doing Taming of the truth. Now, excuse me, I did tell me the truth as well, but, and that was Patricia, which is like 50 lines of Shakespeare, which I can't remember and even now, but in any event, I was doing Fiddler on the roof and I was Lazar wolf, the butcher. And it seemed for TV and him are sitting in a bar, and he's trying to marry the daughter and Tevye is think he's buying the horse, and they're talking and stuff like that, well, the beginning of that scene. Now, if you've not been on stage, you don't know about that about blocking, but everybody's got a place they're supposed to be. And direction. They're supposed to be looking and stuff like that. I was Lazar Wolf, and I was down center stage is what they would call it down center stage. And the curtains were close to the dinner theater, there were 300 people in the audience. And I was standing there with with a watch that I was looking for the time for when I'm heavy was gonna come in in a few minutes. And I was supposed to, I was supposed to look over my right shoulder. And the bartender, who's red Morka was supposed to be standing behind the bar. And I was going to order a bottle of his best brandy because I want to do impress Teviot. And so the and I know you've met somebody like this, he was the the assistant director. And he was acting as a stagehand. And in those days, this is 1980, the screen or the the curtain wasn't automatic. So you have to, you have to pull it out the police system. And he walked over to that. And I looked over my and he was about to open up the scene. And I looked over my right shoulder and there was no red marker. My opening line was red mica, a buckler, your best brandy? He wasn't there. And I looked at this at Joe, Joe Marca, he's not there. He looked at me with a wry smile on his face. And open the screen open the open the curtain. Oh, great. So there, I was at the bottom there. And I had no idea what who he were, huh, where was he? And so I just yelled at the top of top of my voice, red marker. And you can hear because the green room was at the other end, all the way down a hall. And you could hear him running down the, the size of the of the theater, to get to the, to the front and stuff. So, but that that can happen.

58:09  
Stuff like that happens all the time. Like, you know, and part of part of the challenge of live theater is you don't get a second take, you know, because theater acting and film acting are quite different. theater acting, you have to fill an entire room. I mean, sorry, theater, yeah, theater acting, you have to fill entire room, we're film acting, you need to be appropriate for the size of the screen or the size of the shot. And a lot of theater actors, you know, feel like they're a little superior to film actors, because they don't get a second take. They have to be able to do everything one time perfectly and move on and keep the audience engaged. Whereas, you know, on a film set, depending on how much of a budget they have, you can go a couple of times until you get it right.

59:09  
Well, and I've been told and correct me if I'm wrong, you're in the industry yourself. And you're very successful at what you're doing. I've been told that stage acting is more of an actor's medium and, and film acting is more of a director's medium. Am I correct in that?

59:27  
Well, definitely. Because with with stage acting, you have the satisfaction of going through the whole story in order, correct, whereas film acting, it's all about logistics. It's all about Okay. We have you know, this restaurant for X amount of time, so we need to bang out everything that happens in this restaurant in the next two days. And then we have this house. So then for the next week, we have to do everything that happens in this house. And it's not necessarily shot in order. It's not necessarily shot in a way where the where the actor gets, you know, kind of the satisfaction of like feeling the scene and going through the scene. And also, a lot of times when they do a second take or a third take, what people out of the industry don't realize is they are more concerned about the visuals in the frame than the actor's performance. So sometimes you're they'll pick a take where the actor is like, Oh, my God, like, why did they pick that take? That wasn't great. And it's like, oh, well, there was a shadow in this take. And then the camera was shaking in the other take, or there was an airplane, we could hear, you know, like, going overhead and that other take. So it's, and once again, you know, when you have a big budget, and you're in a list superstar, and you know, you, you have more time to get all these things perfect. But but, you know, for lower budget movies, even even union movies, even movies with recognizable names, you know, there are all these other kinds of factors that come into play, when you know, when you're editing. And it's not always about the performance.

1:01:19  
I've been told by an actor, and he works in Vancouver, which is kind of like the northern Hollywood. Yeah. And, and he says that there is an actual position in a movie set for a guy to tell you, because it's not shot in order, yet what what the character that you're portraying, at that moment frame of mind would be based upon where it is in the story. And you might not have any idea about where what he should, should he be apprehensive, you don't mean and so their training they tried to give him, I forget what it's called, but they try and give him a the actor a sense of where that character would be in that particular part in the movie. Have you heard of that?

1:02:08  
I haven't heard of that. Usually, that's the director's job. You know, to kind of give you that feedback. But there are certain you know, if it's like a really high profile show, and they're trying to keep things under wraps, because they don't want things to get leaked. If you're not the lead actor, or one of the principal actors that's on the show every week, you might only be given your scene, so you don't know the context of where you fit into the story.

1:02:40  
It's a fascinating industry, I'd have to tell you. So that is possible. We're going to talk about this more on the radio show. But I wanted first of all, Jennifer, I want to thank you for coming on and talking with me today. And we've been talking with Jennifer Lieberman, go to make your own break.com. And you can find out all about her all the things she does, I would call you, if I were somebody, if you have a design, and a desire that you want to make your own breaks, I can't think of anybody to help you with it better than her. So do that, go to the website and make your own break.com. Now, I'm gonna turn my turn, my son will go sit over here. And I want you to tell our audience anything that you would like them to know, before we close?

1:03:28  
Well, first of all, Kevin, I want to thank you for having me on and giving the opportunity to chat about what I do. As you can tell, like I love talking, I'm such a nerd. I love talking about this stuff. So that was so much fun for me. And if you if anyone out there is interested in getting to know more about my work more about me. Exactly, you can go to make your own break.com there'll be links there to my books, there'll be links there to my acting website. So you could just go to that one place and it'll lead you to everything else. I am also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and my handle is the at sign. I am Jen Lieberman. So on all social media, I am Jen Lieberman. And thank you all for tuning in. I hope you got something positive out of hearing my story and have a beautiful day.

1:04:30  
You have got such tremendous energy and you're so positive and you're saying you're such a you're you're just a good human. That's all I can tell you. Oh,

1:04:40  
thank you. Well, I try.

1:04:43  
I try you can do and does that mean that it's all puppy dogs and fairy dust no with some sometimes can be tough. But at the end of the day, if you have a vision and you stick with it and you continue with it, you will you will have a measure of success, whatever that means. View.

1:05:01  
That's true. I believe it. I definitely believe it. And you all we all have to have a little bit of faith right?

1:05:07  
Little bit that does help does help. Jan, thank you so much for being here. And again, that's Jennifer Lieberman go to make your own break.com Thank you very much. And if you'll wait right there, I'll be right back. Hey, thanks for enjoying this episode all the way to the end. Please give us a like and subscribe to this channel. This has been a production of positive talk radio dotnet please visit our website oddly named positive talk radio dotnet for more details about us and our mission, which is to provide great positive programming designed to inspire us all. I'm Kevin McDonald, and I'm proud of these shows, and I truly hope that you'll like them and share them with friends and family. So on behalf of our entire team, remember, be kind to one another because each other's all we got to

1:05:56  
do