368 | An Interesting Interview you would NOT want to miss with David Bowles!

0:00  
This is a production of km media dot Pro. Welcome back to positive talk radio. Our goal is simple to explore evolving ideas one conversation at a time. So come on over into our world. I know you'll like it. Because on today's show today we get to feature an amazing author who is written a bunch of western style books. And his name is David A Bowles. And I'm going to introduce him in just a second more thoroughly. But first, I want to talk to my friend Eric, how are you today, sir? Happy Monday. I'm doing fine, Kevin. Happy. Hopefully you had a great Thanksgiving. I did. And you. Yeah, it was pretty decent. Made the all the fixings and had my dad come over. And yeah, we had a good time. Thank you for inviting the old fellow over. I know what that's like now from the other side.

0:59  
And of course, you are welcome. But I neglected to send a formal invitation to you, but just know that you're always welcome.

1:08  
Well, thank you, sir. I was I was meeting my son's new girlfriend and her two kids and, and we had a really nice time. And it's really cool. Especially a three year old and a nine year old. It's been a while since I've been around that age group. And it's, it's refreshing. Well, that's a ball of energy. So hopefully, some of that rubbed off. Exactly. And it was a lot of fun. And I just want to say to everybody that if you had a Thanksgiving that was more of just like regular Thursday to you, I want to invite you to stay here and talk to us, because we really care about you guys. And we really hope everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving, and is going into the Christmas season is going to have a wonderful time as well. So I just wanted to say, we appreciate you and thank you for being here. And I know Eric agrees with that. Of course, of course. And Eric, when you were a kid, did you grow up? Did you have like your favorite author? Did you read? Did I read? You know, like read books? Yes. Yes, of course. Of course. I really wasn't mandatory in school for one thing, but exactly. One of my favorite genres was the old Western. Louis L'Amour who has that was my grandfather's favorite author. Yeah. And he wrote book after book after book and, and even even John Wayne was in some of the movies that they that they made out of his books, and stuff. And we have a gentleman that we're going to be talking to in just a second, who is in that vein, his name is David Bowles. He has his website is called Western sagas.com. Go there. And he's got tons of books. And he's a really is a fun guy who's also a bit of a history buff above of the Old West, including one of the places It's on my bucket list, which is called the Alamo. I'm sure you've heard of that. I remember it. Well. You were there weren't ya know? And that if you if you're if the Alamo escaped you if you're wondering what that was that was in I believe it was 1836 the Texans that declare independence from Mexico and Santa Ana came up, and, and 186. And David will correct me on these numbers. But 186 people, including Jim buoy, and Davy Crockett, were killed at the at the Alamo defending Texas and which led to the creation of the state. And he talks about a lot of those things. And he is a real Western dude. He is in Texas himself. And he wears a cowboy hat and boots and all that stuff. So David, welcome to the show. How are you?

4:02  
Glad to be here. I hope you guys had a great Thanksgiving. And I'm one of those guys that didn't have such a great one. I had a poor sick back and got sick on me somebody fettered too much on Thanksgiving. And I've been fighting a battle here with the dog. But I'm glad to be here. And I appreciate you talking about the Alamo rats a favorite of mine and you your math is pretty doggone good. Kevin, it's 189. But for many years, you might have found it no book. And you might have been right because they found three more came up and proved that they were there about 20 years ago. So up till about 20 years ago. 186 was correct number and now it's 189. So they've had they've had to put a few extra names on cenotaph since it was installed.

4:58  
I you know I'm glad you clear that up because I had died. I had no idea. I always had it in my mind 186 But it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Because no, it's close these guys. You don't when we talked about that timeframe, and we talk about people that they were standing there at the Alamo for those 13 days, and they were staring at close to 5000 Troops, and they knew that they probably were not going to survive. And it's amazing the courage that people had in those days.

5:35  
And I cannot say something about that, you know, a lot of people ask about William B. Trivers, who was the commander of the Alamo, he drew a line in the sand. And he asked those that were going to stay with him to come across the line and those that didn't. He would, he would not forgive, you know, they he understood, he said, because they all knew that they had they were, they were going to die that and only one went over the wall. And that was a guy by the name of Moses row. And people asked me so well, is that about waiting be Travis, drawing a line in the sand. And I always say yes, because we had the eyewitness. And you got to think about it when he admitted that he was a might say a deserter and went over the wall. But obviously, he had very good reason. But he he told the story about where you made Travis and drawn a line in the sand. And that way you may traverse gave them the opportunity to leave. And he's the only one that chose to do so.

6:43  
You know? Oh, go ahead. Yeah, that's just backed. Yeah, no, I was just gonna say that there are people listening to us right now that have heard the term drawing a line in the sand, but they have no idea when it's in reference to or what it was about. And that was at one point, when it became clear, and correct me if my history is wrong, but it became clear that they were not going to get any help from Sam Houston. And that goalie ad had been destroyed, and a lot of people had died there, and that they weren't going to get any help. That's when they realized that things were not going to go well for them long term. And he gave them the opportunity at that point to to leave if they so choose, is that Am I close?

7:36  
Kevin, you amaze me. You know, because we're taught these things in Texas, and we'll talk Texas history. And first, we have to know those things. And in Texas, but I'm impressed that you know, all those facts like say he only missed that number three. But there were a little over 200 You know, in the beginning, and of course they have to send some reinforcements, they sent carrier messengers app to try and get some more help. And so there were quite a few of them that left Left the Alamo before the battle started trying to muster up some, some some some army folks, you know, they come in, fight the battle.

8:21  
Now I gotta ask you because I'm not here. I'm not grill clear. And that is David Crockett. He by the way, he didn't like the name. Davey, you told me the last time. That's right. He wanted to be called David. And so David Crockett. And I think there was a band of 25 or 30 Mexicans, excuse me. Tennesseans that yeah, that came with him. And was he expecting to defend the Alamo? Or did that was that just happenstance?

8:48  
Well, all of this came up. He you know, he got fed up and Tennessee. And total an excuse me for using this word, but this is what Davy Crockett said. He said to the to the legislature of Tennessee, you guys can go to hell, and I'm going to Texas. That's exactly what he said. And, and he came to Texas, I guess. I don't think he intended to die there. But he ended up there in one of those 189 men. But the interesting thing about Davy Crockett, this Tennessee and his group of Tennesseans, he came in and asked where you may Travis where is your weakest point of entry into this Garrison, known as the Alamo and he pointed it out and that's where it was a place where the wall was down. They placed a cannon in there and he and his his man were there with literally no protection hardly at all from from the barrage of Santa Ana. So he was truly a hero they out and he has men that came from Tennessee.

10:00  
You know, and the last time we talked, I was lamenting the fact that you know, there are We have sites like that, which is on my bucket list to go see, and, and other places like tombstone. And I went to Tombstone, and it's turned into a tourist trap. And it's not really, you know, they fake the gunbattle, but it's not really gives, it doesn't really give you a flavor of what it was like back then to live in that town. Tell me what they're doing with the Alamo now to kind of resurrect the original experience of being there.

10:40  
Well, what they've done, it's quite it's the state of Texas, as taking it over. The General Land Office is in charge of it. And they have come appropriated several million dollars. The city of San Antonio owns property in front of the Alamo. And it's a collaboration between the city, the state, the county, and the merchants and downtown San Antonio, and you have to realize we're a town of 1.4 million people. And that Alamo sets right in the middle of it. And what is there now is only the chapel a lot of people don't understand they're out there walking. So oh, man, this thing is small. Well, all the fortress and stuff is gone. They haven't marked where the fortress did go all the way down to the river and, and around. And so it's there to be seen. But for many years, we have been like that with a with, you know, carnival like atmosphere, their own that Howard grout, buses and trolley cars and everything else horse carriages and stuff, the front of the city going right over that Hollywood ground that has been is being corrected as we speak. It might be another two years before it's finalized. But we've already got a big museum that's been put in there, and it's magnificently. They've got that complete. But what they're gonna do is put a wall around it and make it like, those buildings that are across the way it will be a museum now that have been a little you know, souvenir stores is what they were. And it's gonna be it's gonna be in two years, it's gonna really be nice. And it will give some semblance of what it's like, it is pretty hard when you're in downtown, have a 1.4 million people to kind of bring something back and I have people joking, I've taken tourists down there. And people have said, well, why in the world that they build it downtown. But what I do, when I take and I do some tours, I kind of limited what I do. But sometimes I actually took the family Davy Crockett family, they have had a reunion there at Alamo several years ago. And I took them out to the mission, San Jose, and some, there are five missions in San Antonio. And I can take someone there and to the missions that have that are away from town and show them what it's like. And if you're out in your area in California, there's a lot of missions that are still in that state with the fortress around it. But it was a it was a garrison, you know, and people, they had your gardens, you know, when the Spaniards were there, they had their gardens, and then the church was there. But now at the time of the Alamo. They the church Catholic Church had abandoned it. And so it was no longer a church at the time of the battle.

14:04  
It'd be it'd become a fortress because that was the only place that they thought could could support them right

14:10  
there a pharaoh battle is the only place you know, it was it just happened to be there when he wouldn't built for that purpose. It was built there for the for the missionaries to live and house you know, and yes, yeah, sorry. It's it's, it's it's a shrine and you know, one of the things that happens there and some people are shocked by this that there's a Texas Ranger or Alamo Ranger standing at the door and everyone is asked to remove their hat and they say it in such a nice way. And they say Sir Madam would do you mind removing your hat because this is a shrine. And you know, when you step in there, you're you're, you're you're you're in a Holic, you're on Howard ground and People expect that. And there's never a there's no ticket. There's no nothing to buy the lady that her name was Dickerson that bought the land and saved it from DEA and demolished. What she said when she gave it to the state of Texas, is that no one should ever be charged to come to this hallowed ground. So they take donations, but they do not know. And I gotta tell you funny stories all the time. I'll tell you. I said it told you the other day. I said, come on down. I'll buy your ticket. So I did I do that a lot. I said, don't worry about tickets. I'll take care of that for you.

15:44  
Well, that's awfully nice. Yeah. Yeah.

15:47  
But it's, it's, it's, it's nice now. And yeah, but you have to realize what it is that so much of it, the walls and stuff were destroyed. So the only thing left is actual mission where the really no fighting took place. And that Alma, that you see that big facade that you see, all the time, there were no side. That was the church. And that were the women, and a Sikh and young boy, was on his deathbed. And that's where they were and the children and a few slaves. And they were the ones that were saved.

16:29  
It's an amazing, it's an amazing thing about American history, is that that's one of the one I was trying to ingrain going through my my mind of, especially in the old west, but Gettysburg, and the Alamo is falls into that there aren't very many that fall into that category of the type of facility and, and what happened there. So it's an important place. You know, the Little Bighorn comes to mind, I have another place, but nobody wants to go live there. So that's why it's pretty desolate still, but, but it's it's important that we have people like you that are writing about that time, because it is really important to let's talk about you, the author of First of all, before I go there, I'm concerned. How's your puppy doing?

17:21  
She's laying over here by me. And she's just doing pretty good right now. She's had a tough couple of nights, but she's coming along.

17:29  
Oh, that's good. I really wish her well, because Thank you. Thank you. Because you also have been traveling the country with your golden retriever. Right? As she's your lab?

17:43  
Yeah. All right. Well,

17:44  
I knew she was yellow or something. But but a yellow lab and the you you guys have been got into a mobile home or a motorhome a 40 footer for a while now you've downsized all the way through to a 26 footer? And you are you travel the country? And I think that's great that I think more more people should do that. What do you think? Do you think that's a good idea?

18:05  
Well, I'm loving it. And I'll tell you, it's a great opportunity to sell books, I set up my travels around book signings and library talks and things like that. So I, I work my travel, and were selling my books and promoting promoting my westward Saga series.

18:26  
Now the Western Saga series, what's what motivated you to begin writing that?

18:32  
You know, I'm so glad Yes. 782. You know, I sat on the front porch with my family and heard these stories, which were some of them were just almost unbelievable. And the story about my little nine year old, my grandmother told about my nine year old I guess he would be cousin being captured there and on the creek by the Indians in Austin. That was in 1841. And how he was taking the Comanches took him off to Taos and all that they were telling me the story, and then I decided I've got to research that and I said, Man, this would make a good book. And I went down to the to the University of Texas campus, and they that were the LBJ Library in the center of American history, as someone had told me that there's a lot of information about that abduction that happened. And they have the letters, and I call them the letters of Angelina and I thought about writing, putting a little book together about her letters. And what I'm talking about the letters. She had the first letter that she received, it had a one cent stamp on it. And the postmaster hit and written deliver free anyhow, that story so touched my heart. I mean to you I'm sitting in and there's a man by the name of Louis Jones that was in Independence, Missouri that didn't know the family didn't know anything. But what they did that good Samaritans put this little boy on one A, they paid $60 to ranch him. And they put him on a wagon train to independence. And when he ended up there, the people in the wagon train had gone up, you know, took him in and took care of him. And they asked the man there, the name of Louis Jones, that they would take care of him and see that he got back to Texas, because in that way, you know, back in those days, that Santa Fe Trail was all there was. And the only way to get to Texas for mayor was go by horse or, or take the Mississippi River down in New Orleans, come around, I won't bore you for how it happened. But I read that letter. And I thought, That's Lewis Jones, who is this guy. And I found out that he was the fan that founded Independence, Missouri, and his home still still is there. And that got me started. And then I started reading the letters of all the good Samaritans that were trying to help get this little boy back. And it just made a beautiful story. And I went to my original thought was just to write a book about that. Then this was my, my last book Comanche trace. But there's a man by the name, HW brand, got an author in Texas, and he belongs to the same writing league I do out of Austin, the writers League of Texas, and I was at the function, and I had an opportunity to talk to him and tell him about what I was thinking about. And he said, David, you need to go back to where this family why this family came to Texas. And that's what I did. I went back and research that answer. I spent 10 or 12 years doing the research. Before I started, I started the book at at about in 2000. Back 2003. So the theory started really in about 2003. And it's now under the fifth book. hope I answered your question. I'm sorry, it took so long that

22:15  
no you did that you did beautifully. And they because from, I think there are a lot of people that are alive now who are not students of history that are not really aware of the difficulty with which people traveled in those days. And you told me something, the last time we talked that I had no idea about that. At one point, Texas, the border of Texas went all the way up to Oklahoma or no filming

22:48  
a 42nd PAC parallel matter of fact, if you look at one of the maps of Texas, prior to 1850, it took in half a New Mexico, most of Oklahoma went all the way up and through Colorado, and ended at the 42nd parallel.

23:06  
So you know, when we started thinking about about that size of Texas at the time, you know, in the in 1836 when they declared their independence from from Mexico. That was you know, they could have been almost half the size of the United States.

23:24  
Yes, sir. And at that time, yes, it was much larger than the United States. But the the exact area of ground was 63 million square miles.

23:39  
That's a big place. Yeah.

23:43  
The United States government wanted to buy it from farms for $10 million.

23:48  
Well, heck, they got the Louisiana Purchase for like 13 or something.

23:54  
But $10 million was a lot of money back in those days, but

23:57  
it was there well, but you know, a lot of people, David don't really, unless you've studied the time period. They don't recognize how Hardy these people were, how difficult the journey was, how dangerous it was all the way along from they came from Tennessee all the way to Texas.

24:19  
Quite a trip. And you know, there was there were no interstates back in those days. It was it was pretty difficult. And you know a lot of people think about the freight wagons in Milan pa setting on I get tickled all the western movies. The they got MA and Paul setting on the buckboard you know, driving the wagon well, those big freight wagons that they came in 30 schooners or whatever you call them, they they didn't fit in there. They made the women and children get out of them they're wrong because it was too dangerous that the furniture shifted or supply farm and quit. under whatever were to shift in those big freight wagons, it, Carol, I'm sorry, it wasn't safe. So like, they walked along, every once in awhile you'll see in movies, right and they walk, man, the man that run in a walking along, he's walking along beside them with some of them with a book where they, you know, I wish all along then when they got tired, they could they had a little board that I could put down and, and set on that board. And but they didn't, these people had to walk all the way from Tennessee, to Texas.

25:35  
And it's not like, if you are listening to this, and you you're you're around today, it's not like you could go to the Czech Medical Center down the block, if you had a problem, or if you broke something or, or if you fell and hurt yourself, there was nothing there. And so the death rate, I'm told from those external excursions were very, very high is that, in your research, is that proven to be

26:05  
very, very much, or very much so. And and, you know, the Indians, I mean, they took, they weren't just real happy about the white man coming down here. Taking their happy on it and your apps. And you know, they had good reasons. And I can tell you one of the one of the things that people don't understand about the clash between the Indians, and there, the white man was that the Indians could never understand land ownership. And these Anglo Europeans came over and CoreSite people own land over there. And they wanted to same thing, of course, the state, the Republic of Texas was given land, they were given every single man as if he would stay there and homestead, a section of land, which is 640 acres, that was a pretty good bounty. And so ahead, right, they call it, Kevin. And that, that, that thing about that land ownership, you know, the I read stories where there'd be a rancher or something, and he looked out his window, and he'd see a group of Indians setting up date teepees on his property, and he, he had get all upset about it. When the Indians, you know, they just, they couldn't understand that a man could come could own that land, because that land had always been there. And that was the big thing there that they just couldn't, if they had ever been able to come vamps the Indians, hey, we'll give you land just like we're given the but they didn't understand now, it you know, if you understand the Indian culture, even the Indians will tell you that they just didn't understand that. That was the big thing that divided them was the land issue?

28:14  
Well, yeah, because they, they, they roamed a lot, then, most of the time, they were following the game. And the the animals that they used to live on, and they, you know, the Buffalo and the antelope, and the in the cattle and, and all the things that they lived on. And so they would move to where the game was so that they could live. So it wasn't like, they didn't put up fences, and they didn't, they didn't, you know, raise cattle and and do it that way. They just followed the

28:46  
game. Exactly. Exactly.

28:50  
And it's, it's, you know, though, when you and I know that with the amount of research that you've done, that there are lots of lots of things that we as a country could have done better as far as managing the when we when we moved west. In those in this day and age, I think it's important for us to recognize it, but not to dwell on it. Does that make sense?

29:16  
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's water under the bridge. Water under the bridge, we got a pretty good thing going for us. My grandkids, you got a grandson that he used to crawl up in my lap means your grandpa tell me about the good old days. I said, Son, you're living him.

29:33  
That is, that is so true. You know, you know what I? One of the things that that makes me glad that I live in this time, and there's so many people that are like me, it's because of the invention of indoor plumbing.

29:47  
Yes. Think about that. And that's why cholera kills so many. You know, we talked about so many people dying. cholera was one of the biggest killers. The people that know You know, they had no idea of what was causing them to cities. They started many of the cities and stuff. And, you know, it wasn't it wasn't till latter part of, you know, 1800s that they finally got an eye a handle on what was causing cholera. And you're exactly right. It was not half the plumbing situation wasn't very good in most of these cities.

30:26  
And a lot of them, they didn't have showers. And you know, it was like that old expression. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You remember that one?

30:36  
Yes, sir. And that's as a treat, saying, I gotta tell you, I had my first book I, I created, I created a fictitious fictional character called Trapper John. And he was, he claimed he was raised by bear and that sort of thing is pretty, his hygiene was a little bit lacks. And he he befriended he befriended this other guy. And he was going to dinner. And so those guys told him it says, or, you know, he says, I want you to go there. And in my cabin, and he says, Any, he made him a tub of water, and left in there and debate and he said, Now, don't forget the wash where the sun don't shine. So the guy goes out, gives a guy an hour or so to get cleaned up. And he came back in and the guy had moved the washtub. Why did you move to Dover about a winter? You know, he says, you told me he was in, you know, in the sunlight. He said, You told me that before the wash where the sun don't shine.

31:49  
It's an amazing, we've come so far, in our culture, by the way, we're talking with David Bowles, he is the author of the

32:01  
web. Thank you

32:03  
so much. So Western, sorry, I was scrolling up to it right there. And there are there are five books in the series. And I highly encourage you to get them I'm I'm lobbying for this to become a mini series. That's That's

32:17  
to say, Man, that's great. I would love that. And that's kind of what I envisioned. And I will tell you, I wrote it in such a way that it wouldn't be very easy to convert to go screenplay or many theories or something like that.

32:32  
Oh, well, you know, things like, there, there have been lots of them that are that were done, and became mini series and stuff. Anyway, we're talking with David Cay Bowles. And we're gonna be right back. We need to take a short break. Just a couple of seconds or so. And I want you to appreciate the sponsors and, and hang out with us some more. This is a fascinating discussion, and we're going to be talking more with David right after these messages you're listening to positive talk radio.

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34:35  
And welcome everybody back to positive talk radio. My name is Kevin McDonald. I'm your host and this is a little offbeat for us. We generally a lot of times we talk about, you know self development and coaching and stuff, but we're talking with a gentleman who it's really near and dear to my heart because David de Bowles is with us and he has written a Western saga, the westward sagas and And it's about a family in the in the mid 1800s that go from Tennessee to Texas and their trials and tribulations of what happened back then. And, and one of the reasons I wanted to have you on David, was that you are you spent a long time researching these books, and you're not you're not a spring chicken here. And I can say that because I'm not either. But when did you start writing? And what was your motivation other than the story that you are telling, but had you always wanted to be a writer?

35:38  
Kevin, I always caught myself saying, Damn, that would make a good book, you know? My family would tell a story. And man, I can't believe you know, and I'll tell you what, they told a lot of stories on that front porch, you know how to under the big ol willow tree that we had in the front yard. And I remember those stories like it was yesterday, and they would tell him, it was kind of funny. Sometimes they'd be a little bit different. And I got ticked, or my dad and his brothers, you know, sitting around, and if no, it wasn't that way. And because they didn't know because, oh, it happened in 18. And 1830s. I actually use that 1850s. But it we're talking the 1830s with when they came to Texas, you know? Oh, wow. Yeah. And so what as I started doing the research and getting into it and getting the story straight. And they were pretty well, right on except, you know, they didn't know how they, how they came out, you know, how did they get here. They didn't know about going down, the nature strays and you know, crossing, crossing the rivers and all that sort of stuff. And so as I documented that, and I was amazed at today with the internet, now you got to realize that I did, I'd started doing my research back in, started back in 1984. And I was given my great grandmother's Bible. She was the first child born in Austin, Texas, in 1841. And inside that Bible, or if documents and dates, and I'd go back, I had the names, and you got to realize the family name that I was researching for this book. But Smith, but fortunately, they had some odd net first names at that, like Fenwick Smith and and my grandmother was Rebecca. That's what now Bucha over here his name for Becca, his name for my fourth great grandmother Rebbeca spelled the the way of the old, old Bible. And by having those springs, I was able to find out so much information. And it just a beautiful story. And it was tough. Yes, it was tough. But you know, those that survived? did well.

38:19  
Yeah. And if they got 600 acres of land, yeah. that would that would help. You know I want yeah, I'm struck David, because you started doing research in the in the 1980s. Did you meet some of the children they are you wouldn't have met some of the folks that were actually there. But it is possible that you could have met some of the children or grandchildren of people that were there. At one point, did you?

38:46  
Yes. And curse my my my grandmother, my grandmother Bowles. She was she was there. And she could tell some some stories and she kept. If you got a moment, I'll tell you a little story. She kept telling me that. Her granddad Bill capital. I don't know if you've ever seen that picture. The State Capitol Texas is three foot tall and one in Washington. Very looks very similar. And a lot of times on TV people are playing like they're in Washington and they use the Texas Capitol from the background. Yeah, you can get you can look at if it's pink. It's not the United States Capitol. It's the Texas Capitol. And she kept telling me that her her grandfather Lorenzo Van Cleave, built that capital. And my grandma, me and my grandmother, I believe here. And in the fourth grade, I told my teacher that we took a we went to schools and asked him and we went down to the Capitol for for a tour. And I told her I said, you know, my granddad, he built this capsule. And she says, Oh, really she says, you know, why don't you get me the information and write a book report and said, you need a little help on the grades. I'll give you extra credit for it. Well, I started, I went to my parents and started talking to us, I can't find any information as to Lorenzo VanCleave built the Capitol. And the only thing I found is that they use convict laborers to bill, the bill that capital, so I kind of dropped it for quite a few years. And then suddenly, I realized, looking in the Bible, that Lorenzo Van Cleave died in 1858. And that capital, we know, sitting there in the middle of that 11th, and Congress Avenue in Austin, Texas, big tall, beautiful building, made of granite, Texas, granite. And that building was built in 1888. So I said, Well, she was sure wrong on that. I found, I found a receipt from the state from a film The Republican Texas for $60. And it was for marabou Amara, the President of the Republic of Texas at that time to build a cabinet table. And then I started searching deeper. And you know what, he did build a capital, but not that one. I even

41:37  
predecessor to

41:37  
it. Yeah, he built a wooden it was just a little wooden building, I managed to even find the pictures. And if anybody wanted to go to the website I actually had, because there was no cameras back in those days. It was what we just call a little dog trot house. It was like a cabin on one side, maybe maybe six 700 square feet, and then a dog trot in the middle, and then another one on the other side. And that's where the governor office was, and were the lead. Of course, the legislature didn't have nearly as many. We got 254 counties now. But at that time, we only had about 16 counties. So you know, it was a much smaller legislature and stuff. But that place now is does. And I'm a little upset about debt. And I've contacted Travis County Historical Society about it several times. There shouldn't be a marker there. That's where the original capital was. But when they built it, they kind of built it in a hurry. Everything that was built there was kind of ramshackle and just it was just he was just basically a carpenter, you know, cabinet maker and a primary a pretty good one. But he did and he received, he's received 640 Extra acres. And you're now gonna believe we're

42:58  
in Houston,

43:00  
Dallas, on the Trinity River, actually take that back he for building the capital in the work the paperwork, and I said he was he was paid for building out the federal buildings and Austin, and he received 12 180 acres of bounty. And he sold it before he died. And he got $1 An acre for it. And it's right now right down on the Trinity River, if you ever have you ever been in the Dallas, deterrent, you know where that is right downtown? Downtown Dallas, but he sold it for $1 an acre, it's now right we're now he lived he lived there. And that was the thing a lot of these guys that did things for the state to state it. I mean, the Republic of Texas at that time, had no money. So the only thing they had was a lot of land. So they could give it away. And in lieu of cash. Does that make sense? Oh, absolutely.

44:04  
Yeah. You got the you know, 100,000 miles of stuff in you can or 100,000 squirmer. You can you can parcel it out that way.

44:16  
What the thing, the moral of the story is that grandma was right. But she had no, she and even my dad had no idea. There was another capital, you know, and it turns out there were three there was original wood one and then they built a stucco one that was burned down in 1853. And then that's when the deaths that he built lasted but that deaths that he built went through three presidents of the Republican Texas and eight governors before the fire that destroyed that table. And reason I know that I spent 10 years looking for that damn table in the capsule.

44:57  
We know and I just want to improve for everybody that's listening to this because, you know, when people are when people get older, and and the generations pass, there's a section of history that gets lost with them. And I really would implore people because now we are in a place where, and you'll appreciate this, David, we're in a place where, if you if you fought in World War Two, many of those guys are in their 90s. Now, and a lot of them are passing away. We need to keep that history alive. Because you what you did, you were able to keep the history of the whole Texas and the 1800s alive. And through your writings now and the books you've written that that is otherwise things that would be lost to humanity. Had you not taken the time to do that? Do you recognize that?

45:52  
Yeah, you know, Kevin, that's what I really had on my mind when I wrote the first book. And the first book was Spring house. And I dedicated it to, you know, my ancestors. And I wrote it in such a way that people that have read all my books, they say, Well, you can really tell your first book you wrote for the family, because I wanted to make sure that I documented everything in the back with an index and that sort of thing. So that they could go back and ever and find out, you know, the copies of these letters and things like that. And I did have that in mind. And more and more people read the book that weren't family, and they said, You know, I really liked your book. And that's when I decided to kind of make the book for commercial. But I originally, the first book was just intended for my family. And we went to Greensboro, North Carolina, where Battle of Guilford Courthouse was fought, and our ancestor fought there and lived there. And I gave everybody a book. And that's really, it kind of started, that I really never even thought beyond commercializing the westward sagas, which at the second book, I said, Well, if there's going to be a series, we got to have a name for the series. And I registered, I own the trademark to westward sagas.

47:24  
It's an important thing that you've done. And it's true, because you've studied it, and it's not fantasy. Now there are that to be. To be fair, there are some moments that have been lost to history. And you had to work with that a little bit as an author will, and but you have the experience of what happened back then to make it all realistic, and true to life.

47:52  
And it's in the letters and it's in the archives and the EFA. And, you know, I like to say this for your audience. If your family's been here, in this country, at least three generations, there's a good chance that your family chances are really good that your family was probably here for the for the American Revolution, or at least the War of 1812. And they should go back and check that out. And the records are there now. I had to go to the courthouses to get my records. And now today ancestry.com Bless our people. They've done a wonderful job of documenting so many things, and you can find your genealogy, and you can find out who your ancestors were. And I love watching that show that's on Public Radio. I can't say fellas name was gates and he does a wonderful job of helping people find their roots. And and the watch them sit there and cry sometimes when they found out you know about their family and things like that. And of course, you take the chance and I know going down my list going down my trail, checking out my family. I found some really

49:17  
not everybody can be a wonderfully educated and warm soul.

49:22  
Exactly.

49:24  
But they were people and they were products of their time. And in those days you were you it was you know your gun and you and and there wasn't even any law around for a long time.

49:41  
Exactly.

49:43  
It's it's the answer. It's a remarkable marvelous thing that you've done. David David A Bowles is the name of the author. His books remind me a great deal of Louis L'Amour, which I know you you were a student of a bit and You go to his website which is westward sagas.com. And you can buy all of his books and you can buy even the book series and, and get them all done and how are they in audiobook and and all that stuff? Yeah, no,

50:15  
I haven't done an audio book and I just I'll tell you why. It's I, I think a book should be read and enjoyed like a good steak slowly and enjoy it and I just somebody driving down the highway at 80 miles an hour listened on my book, they're gonna miss half the story. I just I'm not sold on this audible book. Everybody keeps telling me I got to do it. And I may someday do it, but I haven't yet. And the big thing is, is the cost to do the audible books and the renumeration. Just, it's just not there. And I've had people say, Oh, you can make lots of money? Well, you know, you can sell a lot of books. And I got a dog here with big vet bill, I got I got to try and make a few bucks here and there, Kevin?

51:16  
Well, I'll tell you, I have done audiobooks. It's a it's a time consuming thing. But you know, a story like this would be a would be an honor for me to tackle part of it or all of it for you. And I come relatively cheap, as my friends know,

51:34  
well, let's talk about it. Sometime, not on the air. But let's talk about

51:39  
Fair enough. Fair enough. Again, we've just got a few minutes left. And I want to eat to give you the opportunity, David to tell our audience anything that you would like them to know about your work and your ancestors and, and the times and we've got about two minutes. So anything that you'd like to let them know,

51:59  
well, I just like them to take a look go to my website. You know, the wonderful eight are our go to amazon.com. You got free reads on there and you can go and curse I have electronic books. I like said I haven't done audible yet. But I have electronic and I have the books. And then if you buy him from my website, you can get them autographed. And here right it's Christmas time, I can make them out to whomever you want to give a gift and send it directly to them. And that makes a nice gift. And the bundle we call it we have basically you get one of the books free where the the latest book, which is my surefire star County, which is really going to be a great book won't be available until February but it can be pre ordered on on amazon.com. But you can buy the books from me or buy from Amazon or your local bookstore. Any my my wholesaler is Ingram sparks, and they can they can get a book out in two to three days to any bookstore in America. So you know, the books are readily available. They may not be in your your stores out and and we're in in Seattle. But there's certainly the bookstores can get them. Real quick. If you just go in there and ask for David a bolt. I might tell you also, there's another David Bowles in Texas, that's an author doesn't live too far down the road from a couple 100 miles. But I'll tell you, as a friend told me, he said, David, I can't believe you wrote that book. Because my genre is completely opposite. He's more into fantasy and that sort of thing. So you can kind of be surprised. My books are strictly in the West and the label westward sagas on him. So that and if anybody wants to contact me, I'm also doing a little speaking. And I travel around with old Becca and we put on a little show. And they can find me on westward sagas and and see about what I do entertainment. And I'd love to, I'd love to come out your way. Going west love stories about Western saga.

54:23  
That's right, love to have you. I'd love to have you it'd be great. It'd be great fun. And I just want to remind everybody, one of the things that we do here as we do something called Family legacies, don't let your family's legacy pass away. And you're not taking advantage of seeing people and hearing people in their own voice tell their own stories. Whether we do it or somebody else does it. Don't let history die. It's interesting, you know, because if we do, then we're guaranteed to repeat some of the bad parts of it and we don't want to do that. So David A balls has been our guest, David, thank you so much for being here. Western You are westward. sagas.com. Go there. I want to thank everybody for being here. We will see you Wednesday at four o'clock And remember, be kind to one another because each other's all we've done